ancient little bird in a spaceship limping across universe to raze a mile-high mountain with its diamond-hard beak
Обычно я практически ни с чем не согласна, о чём Fyre пишет, но тут прямо вах… (подозреваю, конечно, что я нашла бы к чему придраться, будь у меня время осмыслить, но времени нет, поэтому я просто радуюсь 
).
Why I will always favour Rumpelstiltskin over Killian Jones
под катом, потому что много и всё не на нашенскомFyre:
Since I’ve started writing Killian in a fic, I’ve been musing on him more than I would like, and the simple fact is that when it comes down to it, when Belle said Killian had ‘a rotten heart’, she wasn’t wrong.
Hear me out. I get that revenge has made him worse and cruel and focused and everything, and I’m more than aware that Rumpel is King of Stupid and Violent Impulses.
But I’m basing my views of them on what we saw of them when they were both just a pair of Dudes in the FTL.
Killian first:
- arrogant
- mocking
- patronising
- bullying
- manipulative
- needlessly cruel
- randomly aggressive to the less fortunate
- makes jokes about gang rape
Whereas Rumpel is the following:
- meek
- frightened
- emotionally vulnerable
- loving
- protective
- kind to beggars/strangers despite having little to spare
And here’s where I don’t see the argument that Rumpel is worse. Look at those traits. The reason Rumpelstiltskin ends up as a villain is because of ‘The Dark One’ - aka, that powerful force that took him over body and soul and made him into an arse.
Zoso himself says “my life is such a burden. You’ll see. Magic always comes with a price, and now it’s yours to pay”. Anyone who says Rumpel would have been a bad guy without this is fooling themselves. Bae points out “you’re different. You hurt people all the time”. With the power of the Dark One pretty much taking him over, Rumpel has been changed into King of the Twunts. It is a corruption and an addiction that he can’t break on his own, and yes it made him a bad person, but without it, before it HE WAS A GOOD MAN.
Now, please, explain to me what Killian’s excuse is. Oh, wait, no. He’s just a cocky, arrogant sumbitch with entitlement issues, a hankering for revenge, and a Penis Metaphor that stopped being funny in the first episode he appeared in.
Кто-то:
I’ve never really believed he and Milah were in love so much as they were like this serial killer and his “true love” on Criminal Minds. She was in his murder van, drugged out of her mind, and said the “alien” standing over her had beautiful eyes. He spent years leaving her mobiles made of human bones before coming back to take her away. And she wanted to go, thought she could change him. And it almost worked, until she realized he was going through the motions of being in love but physically incapable of the emotion. He tried to kill her when she brought it up, and went completely off the rails again when she ran away. The only way to stop him was for the two of them to jump in front of a train together.
So, Hook/Milah, for me, is less true love and more the type of thing where the girl stays with the bad boy because she just can’t help herself. He’s so hot and charismatic that it doesn’t matter who he’s hurt before or who he’ll hurt after, because he’s always gentle with her. Plus she gets a little kick out of the occasional “fun” at someone else’s expense. Bo Griggs and Sherry Squires to Rumple’s Jonathan Crane, if you will.
I’ve got this headcanon that Milah was only infatuated with him, at first, which soured pretty quickly the first time they passed through a town where the barmaid seems unusually terrified of him. No amount of charm seems to work on her, and Milah’s even sneering a bit at her unadventurous spirit, when it comes out through an altercation with the owner that Jones and his crew are no longer welcome because the maid is his daughter who’d been raped by Milah’s beloved. (Because, I’m sorry, there’s no way that man hasn’t raped at least once. Mad props to Colin for the acting, but when he was all up in Belle’s grillspace on his ship I was actually trying to crawl through the back of the couch and away from the tv, which has never happened before. The guy just…skeeves me.) So, now she’s got to wonder, no matter where they go, if there’s another woman he’s seduced or forced himself on.
Because Milah’s all about women having their own agency, and now she’s got to deal with the fact that she’s run away with a man who’s the exact opposite of that. Women, except for her, apparently, are there for him to use in any way he sees fit; whether that be for his own pleasure or personal gain. What makes her special, exactly? Especially when it turns out that there are also wiling partners in his past, who all believed themselves special, too, until he was gone the next day and they were ruined. So, for me, they’re less true love and more partners in crime who have a lot of crazy monkey sex. That’s one place where I definitely didn’t buy the canon “I love you.” I saw flirting. I saw a woman wanting an escape from her mundane life who was willing to go about it in the worst possible way, and I saw a woman who had definitely earned her right to rank high on that ship. But, to me, they’ll always be partners and fuckbuddies rather than lovers.
Fyre:
My head canon for Hook/Milah is that he did care for her and vice versa. After all, he tried to save her life and she tried to save his, but they weren’t exactly the… 2.4 children and picket fence couple. She was too much respected by the crew simply to be a broken victim in the whole affair: they listened to her, acknowledged her, and didn’t question her authority.
I have this idea stuck in my head that for all his swagger and cockiness in front of his crew (I’ve ranted at length about the way Killian shows off for his boys), he wouldn’t be quite so much of a facetious asshat one-on-one with someone he liked. When I was capping the scene with them in the bar, what stuck out to me was the fact he had clearly been listening to her talking.
I can’t help thinking he had a bit of a crush on this free spirit who didn’t care about society norms and wasn’t adverse to having a party. She seemed the kind of person who would be a fun member of the crew. And the falling in love part… well, she went for the hot totty, and later, he realised she was important to him. Important enough to face the Dark One, alone, and make sure the Dark One never found her.
As for Milah wanting women to have their agency, I don’t think she even was thinking that far ahead: I let my misery cloud my judgement. This isn’t about women. This is about the fact she was trapped and miserable and wanted out. It was purely her own emotions and desires that drove her to leave her family for adventure. It wasn’t some exercise in women’s lib, as nice as it is to see a woman who will take a stand against her own unhappiness.
I may not like Hook, but he and Milah are kind of my anti-OTP. They’re a good match together, both coming from a place of selfishness and finding one person in the world who didn’t despise them for it.
от©юда
Если получится, постараюсь перевести, но не знаю, когда получится. 
).Why I will always favour Rumpelstiltskin over Killian Jones
под катом, потому что много и всё не на нашенском
Fyre:Since I’ve started writing Killian in a fic, I’ve been musing on him more than I would like, and the simple fact is that when it comes down to it, when Belle said Killian had ‘a rotten heart’, she wasn’t wrong.
Hear me out. I get that revenge has made him worse and cruel and focused and everything, and I’m more than aware that Rumpel is King of Stupid and Violent Impulses.
But I’m basing my views of them on what we saw of them when they were both just a pair of Dudes in the FTL.
Killian first:
- arrogant
- mocking
- patronising
- bullying
- manipulative
- needlessly cruel
- randomly aggressive to the less fortunate
- makes jokes about gang rape
Whereas Rumpel is the following:
- meek
- frightened
- emotionally vulnerable
- loving
- protective
- kind to beggars/strangers despite having little to spare
And here’s where I don’t see the argument that Rumpel is worse. Look at those traits. The reason Rumpelstiltskin ends up as a villain is because of ‘The Dark One’ - aka, that powerful force that took him over body and soul and made him into an arse.
Zoso himself says “my life is such a burden. You’ll see. Magic always comes with a price, and now it’s yours to pay”. Anyone who says Rumpel would have been a bad guy without this is fooling themselves. Bae points out “you’re different. You hurt people all the time”. With the power of the Dark One pretty much taking him over, Rumpel has been changed into King of the Twunts. It is a corruption and an addiction that he can’t break on his own, and yes it made him a bad person, but without it, before it HE WAS A GOOD MAN.
Now, please, explain to me what Killian’s excuse is. Oh, wait, no. He’s just a cocky, arrogant sumbitch with entitlement issues, a hankering for revenge, and a Penis Metaphor that stopped being funny in the first episode he appeared in.
Кто-то:
I’ve never really believed he and Milah were in love so much as they were like this serial killer and his “true love” on Criminal Minds. She was in his murder van, drugged out of her mind, and said the “alien” standing over her had beautiful eyes. He spent years leaving her mobiles made of human bones before coming back to take her away. And she wanted to go, thought she could change him. And it almost worked, until she realized he was going through the motions of being in love but physically incapable of the emotion. He tried to kill her when she brought it up, and went completely off the rails again when she ran away. The only way to stop him was for the two of them to jump in front of a train together.
So, Hook/Milah, for me, is less true love and more the type of thing where the girl stays with the bad boy because she just can’t help herself. He’s so hot and charismatic that it doesn’t matter who he’s hurt before or who he’ll hurt after, because he’s always gentle with her. Plus she gets a little kick out of the occasional “fun” at someone else’s expense. Bo Griggs and Sherry Squires to Rumple’s Jonathan Crane, if you will.
I’ve got this headcanon that Milah was only infatuated with him, at first, which soured pretty quickly the first time they passed through a town where the barmaid seems unusually terrified of him. No amount of charm seems to work on her, and Milah’s even sneering a bit at her unadventurous spirit, when it comes out through an altercation with the owner that Jones and his crew are no longer welcome because the maid is his daughter who’d been raped by Milah’s beloved. (Because, I’m sorry, there’s no way that man hasn’t raped at least once. Mad props to Colin for the acting, but when he was all up in Belle’s grillspace on his ship I was actually trying to crawl through the back of the couch and away from the tv, which has never happened before. The guy just…skeeves me.) So, now she’s got to wonder, no matter where they go, if there’s another woman he’s seduced or forced himself on.
Because Milah’s all about women having their own agency, and now she’s got to deal with the fact that she’s run away with a man who’s the exact opposite of that. Women, except for her, apparently, are there for him to use in any way he sees fit; whether that be for his own pleasure or personal gain. What makes her special, exactly? Especially when it turns out that there are also wiling partners in his past, who all believed themselves special, too, until he was gone the next day and they were ruined. So, for me, they’re less true love and more partners in crime who have a lot of crazy monkey sex. That’s one place where I definitely didn’t buy the canon “I love you.” I saw flirting. I saw a woman wanting an escape from her mundane life who was willing to go about it in the worst possible way, and I saw a woman who had definitely earned her right to rank high on that ship. But, to me, they’ll always be partners and fuckbuddies rather than lovers.
Fyre:
My head canon for Hook/Milah is that he did care for her and vice versa. After all, he tried to save her life and she tried to save his, but they weren’t exactly the… 2.4 children and picket fence couple. She was too much respected by the crew simply to be a broken victim in the whole affair: they listened to her, acknowledged her, and didn’t question her authority.
I have this idea stuck in my head that for all his swagger and cockiness in front of his crew (I’ve ranted at length about the way Killian shows off for his boys), he wouldn’t be quite so much of a facetious asshat one-on-one with someone he liked. When I was capping the scene with them in the bar, what stuck out to me was the fact he had clearly been listening to her talking.
I can’t help thinking he had a bit of a crush on this free spirit who didn’t care about society norms and wasn’t adverse to having a party. She seemed the kind of person who would be a fun member of the crew. And the falling in love part… well, she went for the hot totty, and later, he realised she was important to him. Important enough to face the Dark One, alone, and make sure the Dark One never found her.
As for Milah wanting women to have their agency, I don’t think she even was thinking that far ahead: I let my misery cloud my judgement. This isn’t about women. This is about the fact she was trapped and miserable and wanted out. It was purely her own emotions and desires that drove her to leave her family for adventure. It wasn’t some exercise in women’s lib, as nice as it is to see a woman who will take a stand against her own unhappiness.
I may not like Hook, but he and Milah are kind of my anti-OTP. They’re a good match together, both coming from a place of selfishness and finding one person in the world who didn’t despise them for it.
от©юда
Если получится, постараюсь перевести, но не знаю, когда получится. @темы: бла-бла-бла, Крюк, OUAT, Румпельштильцхен/мистер Голд
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07.02.2013 в 14:07Но для меня это тоже принципиальное различие между Румпелем и Джонсом: если один начинал как мягкий, добрый и милосердный человек, то второй - как хулиган, любящий издеваться над слабыми. И еще один момент: ничто ведь не мешало Киллиану, когда Румпель умолял вернуть Милу, сказать прямо: "Мужик, она уходит со мной по доброй воле, потому что ей обрыдли ты, твой жалкий дом и твоя вялая морковка". Это было бы не менее жестоко, но, по крайней мере, честно. Однако, Киллиан приложил все усилия для того, чтобы Румпель почувствовал себя человеком, оставляющим жену в беде, обрекающим ее на групповое изнасилование... То есть хочет его не просто унизить и растоптать, но и навесить страшнейшее чувство вины на всю жизнь. В в этом смысле Крюк - тот еще садист...
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07.02.2013 в 14:17Вот именно! Я ещё тогда говорила, что взял бы, да объяснил всё по-честному, что жена его здесь по доброй воле, сама в ногах валялась, только чтобы тебя да сынка твоего драгоценного больше не видеть никогда, но ведь нет, нужно всё исказить, да ещё и морали читать, от которых я прямо на стены начинаю бросаться при малейшем воспоминании!!!
Да-да, вот покажут нам мальчонку, который смерть мамы не смог пережить.
(только у "папки" такие глаза карие и добрые, что пока что о другом семействе больше думается)
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07.02.2013 в 22:07А мне показалось, что Крюк просто решил "проверить на вшивость" Румпельштильцхена, посмотреть, настолько ли он любит свою жену, чтобы осмелиться драться за неё с превосходящим противником.
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07.02.2013 в 22:19Или зная то, что мы знаем сейчас, и предполагая, что он и тогда умел орудовать посохом, как сейчас тростью, и вмазал бы Крюку, кто-то позволил бы ему продолжить? Или признал за ним победу, нанеси он Крюку какой-нибудь решающий удар, свалив его с ног? Всё это было затеяно исключительно с целью поглумиться над беспомощным человеком. И поэтому это НАГЛОЕ заявление про нежелание биться за то, что дорого - ну просто… у меня слов нет, как вишенка на торте, только наоборот. Отвратительно!!!
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07.02.2013 в 22:28Ха, я вот тоже как раз написать хотела, что вряд ли в случае проявленной смелости Румпель получил бы обратно Милу и мешок золотых монет впридачу.
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07.02.2013 в 22:48Hy почему же не к месту? Очень даже к месту, если задача стояла повеселить команду и повытирать ноги о невинного человека, который тебе ничем ответить не может. Сначала ставишь перед ним заведомо невыполнимую задачу, а потом ещё втираешь про его собственную никчёмность.
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07.02.2013 в 22:55Нет, конечно. Но отношение, думаю, к нему было бы уже другое. Ладно, это уже моё имхо.
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07.02.2013 в 23:00-
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07.02.2013 в 23:00если задача стояла повеселить команду и повытирать ноги о невинного человека Как мы помним, когда Румпель врезался в него, изображая из себя нищего, поведение у Крюка было точно таким же. Может, бить в его намерения не входило, но поиздеваться он явно не прочь. Тем более забавно выглядело, как все сразу стали серьёзными, когда оказалось, что перед ними не слабый нищий, а страшный Тёмный.
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07.02.2013 в 23:07Не верю я, что что-то изменилось бы - ведь изначально никто не ставил перед ним задачи реально что-то кому-то доказать, просто его мучения и издевательства над ним ещё продлились бы.
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07.02.2013 в 23:10Я всегда рада новым собеседникам.
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07.02.2013 в 23:20Спасибо) Давно читаю обсуждения у Вас, очень интересно
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07.02.2013 в 23:25Вам спасибо. Приходите ещё.
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07.02.2013 в 23:37